Born: 26 February 1789, Scotland
Entered: 07 September 1810, Hodder, Stonyhurst, England - Angliae Province (ANG)
Ordained: 1820
Died: 12 March 1835, Aberdeen, Scotland

Left Society of Jesus: 1830

in Clongowes 1817;
in Friburg Switzerland 1826

Fr Edmund Hogan SJ “Catalogica Chronologica” :
Father Murphy says that at the age of 10, he entered the Scotch College at Ratisbonne, at 16 he went to Stonyhurst. His inscription is “Carolus Fraser, Miss : Ap : in Planis Scotiae ob : Aberd. xii Mar 1835, aet xlvii”. (cf FD Murphy’s “Collections”

He belonged to HIB and was very much esteemed by all his brethren in Ireland.
He was a Professor and Prefect at Clongowes and a most distinguished Preacher, as well as the author of a History of the Suppression, which is in the Milltown Park Archives.

Although he left the Society, he kept up a correspondence with the Irish Jesuits.
Loose leaf note in CatChrn : Entitled “Left Stonyhurst for Castle Brown” :

Born: 15 April 1906, Charlotte Street, Newbridge, County Kildare
Entered: 31 August 1923, St Stanislaus College, Tullabeg, County Offaly
Ordained: 24 June 1937, Milltown Park, Dublin
Final Vows: 02 February 1940, Mungret College SJ, Limerick
Died: 30 August 1977, Our Lady of Fatima, Elliot Lake, Ontario, Canada

Left Society of Jesus: 25 September 1956 (Incardinated into Sault St Marie Diocese, Canada 1956)

Father (a Protestant) is a clerk of The Laird Line Shipping Company. Family lived at Emerald Street, Seville Place, Dublin City, County Dublin.
Youngest of three boys.
Early education at St Laurence O'Toole’s Christian Brother school, and then at O’Connell Schools.
by 1929 at Berchmanskolleg, Pullach, Germany (GER S) studying
1931 Regency at Belvedere
by 1939 at St Beuno’s Wales (ANG) making Tertianship

Baptised at Newbridge parish, 22 May 1906

Born: 17 March 1930, Iona Crescent, Glasnevin, Dublin, County Dublin
Entered: 08 October 1947, St Mary's, Emo, County Laois
Ordained: 31 July 1961, Milltown Park, Dublin
Final Vows: 02 February 1965, Rome, Italy
Died: 11 November 2020, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Left Society of Jesus: 10 December 1976

Father, Cornelius, was a Land Commission Inspector. Mother was Agnes (Monks). Family lived at Seatown Place, Dundalk, County Louth for a period until Conn was aged 5.

Third of four boys with two sisters.

Early education was at St Pat’s, Drumcondra, he then went to Cistercian College Roscrea for one year. Then he went to Coláiste Mhuire, Parnell Square, Dublin. In his Leaving Cert he got a Dublin Corporation scholarship and a new Government scholarship for University at UCG.

1947-1949: St Mary's, Emo, Novitiate
1949-1953: Rathfarnham Castle, Juniorate, UCD (BA)
1953-1956: Berchmanskolleg, Pullach, Germany (GER S) studying Philosophy
1956-1958: Belvedere College SJ, Regency
1958-1962: Milltown Park, Theology
1962-1963: Sentmaringer Münster, Germany (GER I) making Tertianship
1963-1965: Collegio Bellarmino, Rome, Philosophy at the Gregorian University
1965-1966: St Louis MO, USA (MAR) teaching Philosophy
1966-1976: Milltown Park, Lecturing in Philosophy
1973-1974 at Regis Toronto, Canada (CAN S) sabbatical and Berchmanskolleg, Kauylbachstr, Munich & Copenhagen, Denmark

In April 1976 asked for a short “leave of absence” with a view to asking to be laicised and dispensed from Vows. Granted 10/12/1976

Address on leaving, Sandymount Green, Dublin, then Clifton House, Monkstown Road, County Dublin and then Ennafort Park, Raheny, then St Mary’s Road, Ballsbridge, and then Clifton House, Monkstown again. In 1977 he was working with Gaeltarra Eireann and living at Dangan Lower, Galway. Married Pat (Paddy) Stokes, an Australian, in December 1977. They emigrated to Australia in 1979, and worked at St Aloysius College, Sydney. Taught in Belvedere Junior School, 1999-2000 and then returned to Australia where he worked at St Ignaius College, Riverview, Sydney.

Address 2000 & 1991: Carabella Street, Kirribilli, New South Wales, Australia

https://lonergan.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Shane-Hogan-Conn-ODonovan-Eulogy.pdf

A eulogy for Cornelius Patrick O’Donovan (17 March 1930 - 11 November 2020)
Shane Hogan, former Headmaster, St.Ignatius College, Riverview
21 November 2020

We are here to celebrate the precious life of Cornelius Patrick O’Donovan’s, or ‘Conn’ as he was more affectionally known.

Conn was an immensely special person to a great number of people from vast walks of life. From a young Irish lad in a big catholic family to a dynamic Jesuit, his adventurous and influential life in Australia is one worth remembering and celebrating. I pray these words are befitting of Conn and the extraordinary legacy that lives on in his family and friends.

In 2003 I was given a book by Daven Day SJ when he was Provincial. Its title was Heroic Leadership. It was an attempt by the author, an ex-Jesuit, to explain why the Jesuits had survived for the past 450 years while empires and successful corporations have fallen by the way side in that time. He put it down to 4 characteristics that he believes have served the Jesuits over that time: self-awareness, heroic deeds, ingenuity, and love.

Does each of these principals not sum up and epitomise this beautiful man’s character and personality and explain how he had such an impact on each person’s life that he touched.

Conn was born on 17 March 1930 in Dublin. The keen-eyed among you will have noticed the significance of this date – it is surprising he was not called Patrick Cornelius! As the second born male, Irish tradition states that he would be named after his paternal
grandfather and father.

His father was the Land Commissioner Inspector at this time but was famously behind the barricades at the Dublin General Post Office, shoulder to shoulder with Collins, Clarke, Connelly and McDermott, in the Easter Rising of 1916. Conn was very proud of this fact.

Conn had his Secondary education at Roscrea College, Tipperary for one year, and spent the remainder at Colaiste Mhuire, Dublin – an Irish-speaking Christian Brothers School. He entered the Society of Jesus on 8 October 1947, joining the Jesuit Novitiate at Emo, near Portarlington, where he spent two years of spiritual formation. In the Novitiate he was encouraged to read widely and to develop an interest in music and the arts, a passion he maintained throughout his life.

Following his time in the Jesuit Novitiate he travelled to Rathfarnham Castle where he studied for four years at the University College Dublin. An exemplary student, Conn pursued a demanding course, taking four subjects in Science and Mathematics. While he certainly could have obtained an impressive degree in Science, Conn’s heart remained in the realm of the humanities, and at the end of his first year, he switched to a degree in Latin and Irish. He would, of course, obtain First Class Honours. From here, Conn travelled to Germany to study Philosophy and upon commencement, greatly impressed the demanding German Jesuit professors, who promptly marked him as someone set to become a specialist in Philosophy.

Conn spent the next two years teaching and perfecting his craft at Belvedere College, Dublin, where his interest and ability in sports came to the fore. He was an excellent teacher, popular with the students and possessed an effortless and kindly control in the classroom and on the playing field. He then moved to Milltown Institute of Theology and Philosophy for four years of Theological Studies. It was Milltown that had a decisive impact on Conn, in large part due to his association with Philip McShane, with whom he forged a personal and intellectual friendship, one that would influence not only the other, but a whole generation of students of Philosophy at the Milltown Institute. His interest in philosophy deepened and matured over these years and the expectations of his German philosophy professors were further realised. After his final year of formation - his tertianship - Conn attended the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome where he obtained a Doctorate in Philosophy which he promptly put to use at the Jesuit St. Louis University in Missouri.

Conn returned home to Ireland where he taught Philosophy for 10 years. As ever, he was popular with colleagues and students, being urbane and gracious as he was. With his Milltown friend, Philip McShane, the pair established a philosophy course grounded in the teachings of the Canadian Jesuit Philosopher, Bernard Lonergan. This decision, however, was not without controversy and painful conflict. The modernisation of religious life was under heavy scrutiny at the time of the change, following the second Vatican Council. Although unknown, many believe that this series of conflicts in the 1960s were what caused Conn to leave the Priesthood and the Jesuits. Conn and the Jesuits remained passionately and eternally in a “benign and mutually appreciative relationship”.

Conn met the love of his life, Paddy, sometime after leaving the Jesuits. Paddy was an Australian nurse whom Conn met while she was travelling through Ireland. Conn was besotted with Paddy. Anything that she wanted, Conn was prepared to deliver. The two
become inseparable and shared many crazy adventures. His immense love for Paddy endured until her passing in 2003. A beautiful send-off was held for Paddy at St Canisius in Potts Point, arranged by Conn’s dear friend, Steve Sinn.

Conn arrived on the doorsteps of St Aloysius College in January 1980. He was looking for a job, as were a number of others who have been part of Jesuit education in Australia for the past 40 years. The first time I met him, Conn was sitting outside Father Bruce’s office waiting to go in and get our classes for the year. At Aloysius, Conn was an immediately hit with staff and students (and Jesuits). He played staff football on a Friday afternoon for many years. I did not realise how old he was at this time, probably 50 or close to it, he was easily one of the best players on the field – a great goalkeeper. Off the field, Conn could also hold his own with a drink.

Conn was an exceptional Latin teacher, Latin being one of eight languages Conn had been taught or taught himself to speak. He was also an exceptional Year Coordinator, earning the love of his students whom he loved in return. One of the reasons for this mutual respect was due to the fact that Conn could not bring himself to use the strap as punishment. He opted instead for a slower, arguably more cruel method, to talk them to death! If this did not work, he would refer them to his assistant, Neil Mushan, to sort out matters more… directly.This discipline method did not work when Helen Ephrums became his new assistant, as she also loved the boys to death.

Conn’s time at Aloysius is wonderfully remembered in comedian Ahn Do’s popular novel, The Happiest Refugee, where Conn’s passion and commitment to fair play saw him rest Ahn late in a Basketball game when Ahn was desperately trying to get to 30 points to win a new pair of basketball boots. When Conn was informed of his accidental actions, he was reported to have said, “Jaysus! Why didn’t you tell me earlier you daft eediot! Ahn, next time out, you’re on!” I can hear him saying it! With his right hand on his forehead.

When I first knew Conn, he was living at St Ignatius’ College in the old Infirmary. After that, he resided at Pearl Beach and travelled each day to St Aloysius is his green Morris Minor. He also for a time lived in a plush flat in Bellevue Hill, however the only piece of property he owned in his life, was an old church in the country which he used as a holiday house. Finally, Conn moved to Riverview and lived in a cottage by First Field for many years, a very happy place with classical music always drifting in the air as you approached.

On his departure from St Aloysius in the mid ‘90s, Conn travelled home to Ireland for a number of years. Paddy had convinced him she wanted to go home to Ireland to live and do a cooking course in France. Ever supportive of her dreams and true to his enduring love, whatever Paddy wanted, Conn was always prepared to deliver. While in Ireland, Conn taught at the Jesuit Belvedere College, Dublin, but both he and Paddy soon realised that with the Celtic Tiger enveloping the nation, Ireland was not the place and home they thought it to be.

Conn returned to Australia, commencing at St Ignatius’ College, Riverview, where he would join a number of us who had left Aloysius to start anew. After Paddy died, I asked Conn to come and live at Riverview. With this, a new amazing stage in his life began: that of a Jesuit, mystic and gypsy. Conn did possibly his best and most influential work while at Riverview. As mentor and confidante to the Headmaster, as well as Latin teacher, Conn spent many an afternoon wasting his time on Jennie Hickey and I - who never completed her homework and was inattentive at times - as he tried to get us through the Year 7 syllabus … year after year.

Conn’s impact on the formation of young Ignatian men and on those he worked with can be summed up by the outpouring of emotional responses on social media on hearing the news of his passing. Among the many moving tributes, here are two such examples of the widespread and lasting influence of Conn’s character.

A wonderful person and a great and enthusiastic 4th XI soccer coach! Profound intellect, humility, insight, depth of faith, simplicity of life, ease of finding joy… Conn’s gift for critical, honest thinking and seeking after truth made a big impact on me and many. I am moved to gratitude for his life. May Conn rest in peace. – James O’Brien
A dear friend and teacher who helped educate the whole person - a wonderful teacher of Ancient Greek who, in the course of teaching the subject, taught you also a good deal of literature - particularly the Irish poets - Latin, Gaelic, German, Philosophy and Theology. A great football coach who insisted on character and fair, firm play. But more, just a caring shepherd of people on their way into broader life. My favourite lessons in Greek were when he would turn up with a poem of Seamus Heaney’s,

because the story of the Trojan wars was also the story of all human struggles. Requiescat in pace, Conn. – Dominic Kelly

At this point, can I especially thank, from all of Conn’s friends and family, the care and love shared by the dozen or so girlfriends who spoilt him and gave him a graceful entry to heaven over the past months and were true friends to the end, especially you Christine, you have been an angel by his side.

In the Book of Isiah there is the story of the passing of a close friend of Cicero and when his wife asks him why do you weep so?

“The earth is poorer” said Cicero. “It has lost a good man, and we cannot afford it”

The earth will be a poorer place without Conn, at a time when good men are hard to find. Conn touched each and every one of us and has left us with memories we will cherish forever. Conn loved his Irish heritage, and in particular Irish poets. Conn and Paddy attached this poem to a birthday card they sent me in 2002. When you read it, hear Conn’s words in your head and heart.

https://lonergan.org.au/conn-odonovan-2/

27 November 2020

In Memory of Cornelius Patrick O’Donovan (17 March 1930 – 11 November 2020)

Our colleague and friend, Conn O’Donovan, was a regular attendee, participant and presenter at our biennial Australian Lonergan Workshop. He had a particular expertise and interest in the philosophy of learning.

He will remembered as a passionate and compassionate man, a lover of his wife Paddy, a scholar and a teacher,. He will also be remembered for this love of music and Lindt 85% dark chocolate.

His funeral service can be viewed (until 20th May 2021) at: https://www.FuneralVideo.com.au/CorneliusODonovan. A hard copy of the eulogy by Shane Hogan, former headmaster at St.Ignatius College, Riverview is available to download here. This includes a little of life-story.

In Lonergan circles, he will be remembered an educator, a reformer of philosophy and theology courses and a translator and interpreter of one of Lonergan’s important contributions to theology.

Educator

Throughout his life, Conn was an educator at various institutions – Belvedere College, Dublin; St.Louis University, Missouri; and Milltown Institute of Theology and Philosophy.

Over the past 40 years, Conn taught at St.Aloysius College, Milson’s Point and St.Ignatius College, Riverview (in Sydney, Australia). He is particularly noted for his course on “Wonder about Wonder: an introduction to philosophy” which aimed to have students grasp their own native wonder.

Reformer

In the early 1960s, Conn worked closely with Phil McShane and others in reforming philosophy and theology courses at the Jesuit Milltown Institute, Dublin. In a 2003 article in the Journal of Macrodynamic Analysis reflecting on the first forty years of Phil McShane, Conn recalled the challenge and the difficulties they faced:

There was considerable discontent, and even cynicism, among those Jesuit students, whether Lonergan inspired or not, who looked on theology as something more than just a canonical prerequisite for ordination, or who had already achieved considerable success in some other field. Many of them simply went along with the system, mastering the matter presented and producing it, on request, at examination time; others registered a kind of protest by pursuing private interests as much as possible; those inspired by Lonergan tended increasingly to raise questions in class in a manner that challenged their professors’ authority, at times, unfortunately, with a crude appeal to the authority of Lonergan. We did not know then that we were living through the final years of a system that Lonergan later described as hopelessly antiquated but not yet demolished, that what was happening at Milltown was happening all over the world, and that the upheaval that was soon to come would affect much more than the traditional seminary courses in philosophy and theology.

Translator and interpreter

In the early 1970s, Conn undertook the long and arduous task of translating, from Latin into English, the first part of the first volume of Bernard Lonergan’s De Deo Trino. It was published in 1976 by Darton Longman & Todd as The Way to Nicea: The Dialectical Development of Trinitarian Theology and examined the dialectical process by which the dogma of the Trinity developed in the first four centuries. The Way to Nicea was the first translation of Lonergan’s Latin writings to be published.

Lonergan was always reluctant to have any of his Latin texts translated because he wrote them in Latin for a very specific audience, I.e., the students from 17 nations at the Gregorian, as well the Holy Office who had to approve all texts used at pontifical universities. He said that he would have written it “differently” in English or French.
Having read Conn’s translation of the first part of de Deo Trino he thought it excellent and agreed to have it published as The Way to Nicea.The book includes an important introduction by Conn in which he sets out to:

survey the content and indicate the structure of the whole two-volume work [De Deo Trino] of which the part translated constitutes one sixth,
Give an account of Lonergan’s academic courses on the Trinity, from 1945 to 1964, with some references to other work in progress at the time of these courses,
Give a brief history of Lonergan’s writings on the Trinity during his years in Rome culminating in the 1964 De Deo Trino,
Discuss the importance for Lonergan of trinitarian theology as the area in which (mainly) he worked out his method in theology
Comment on Lonergan’s enduring involvement with and contribution to trinitarian theology as a topic of the greatest importance within theology
Suggest some reasons why Lonergan has been so far unwilling to release for publication in translation any more than this one part of De Deo Trino and why he has released even as much as he has
Make a few comments on the tasks of translation itself.

Born: 29 June 1618, Carton, County Kildare / Malahide County Dublin
Entered: c May 1635, Portugal - Lusitaniae Province (LUS)
Ordained: 06 April 1647, Rome Italy
Died: 15 November 1680, Dublin Castle, Dublin, County Dublin

Left Society of Jesus: 29 June 1659

Consecrated Archbishop of Dublin 09 May 1669, Antwerp, Netherlands

Younger brother of John Talbot SJ - RIP 1667

https://www.dib.ie/biography/talbot-peter-a8452

DICTIONARY OF IRISH BIOGRAPHY

Talbot, Peter

Contributed by
Clarke, Aidan

Talbot, Peter (c.1618–1680), churchman, was sixth son of Sir William Talbot (qv), sometime recorder of the city of Dublin, and his wife, Alison Netterville. He entered the Society of Jesus in Portugal in May 1635 and completed his education in Rome, where he was ordained on 6 April 1647 and where he was said (by Oliver Plunkett (qv)) to have proved ‘so troublesome’ that he was sent to Florence for the tertian stage of his probation.

He returned to Portugal before long and went thence to the Spanish Netherlands, where he became involved in the politics, both high and low, of the royalist exiles. His conjoint aims were to secure support from catholic sources for the restoration of Charles II and to persuade Charles to court this support by promising concessions to his catholic subjects. In the early summer of 1653, probably at the prompting of his francophile Franciscan brother Thomas, he submitted proposals to the French ambassador in London and visited Ireland briefly in furtherance of them, but the venture proved fruitless. He returned to London in 1654, this time from Madrid as an agent from Philip IV to the Spanish ambassador, Cardenas. Late in the same year, in Cologne, he acted as an intermediary between the king and the papal nuncio, to whom he hinted that Charles might be prepared to convert to catholicism, and who declined to convey so improbable a message to Rome. In 1656 Talbot exploited his ready access to the Spanish court to advise Charles that a treaty with Spain would be assured if he were secretly to declare his conversion, but the subsequent treaty was concluded on other terms, without Talbot's assistance. From 1655, when his brothers Richard (qv) and Gilbert had been involved in a plot to kill Oliver Cromwell (qv), Talbot had become increasingly committed to promoting the extravagant schemes of the former Leveller Edward Sexby, which ranged from Spanish invasion to the assassination of Cromwell.

After Richard Talbot was admitted to the circle of James (qv), duke of York, Peter came under suspicion of transferring his allegiance to James. In the summer of 1658 he incurred the king's displeasure by making a mysterious visit to Spain on James's behalf, and even greater ambiguity surrounded a visit to England on the fall of the protectorate in April 1659. It appears that Talbot travelled at the instance of ministers of the Spanish government, who were persuaded that he could help to prevent the republicans from gaining control. However, his failure to inform Charles of his mission prompted suspicions that he was either exploring the possibility of a peace between the commonwealth and Spain or intriguing in the interests of York. This episode triggered a final breach with the Society of Jesus. Though Talbot had not yet been professed, a place had been found for him, teaching moral theology in Antwerp, and he had published a number of works of religious controversy, but his political activity had not met with the approval of his superiors. Almost certainly in response to representations from Charles or his advisers, the general instructed him to leave England and ‘dissevered’ him from the order in June when he did not obey. Talbot managed to recover the king's favour in the autumn when he travelled to Fuenterrabia to assist Charles in his efforts to have his interests accommodated in the Franco–Spanish treaty of the Pyrenees. He had returned to the Netherlands and was pursuing further possibilities of securing military backing in May 1660 when Charles was restored.

In September 1660 Talbot took up residence in London, where his involvement in the politics of court faction continued. The king's chief minister, Clarendon, was implacably hostile to him but he enjoyed the patronage of Ormond (qv) and supported the loyal remonstrance promoted by Peter Walsh (qv), with whom he had worked closely in 1659. Appointed queen's almoner shortly after the royal marriage in May 1662, he was dismissed and barred from court less than six months later at the behest of the king's mistress, Lady Castlemaine. As Richard Talbot became increasingly identified with catholic opposition to Ormond in Ireland, Peter became critical of both Ormond and Walsh: he opposed the adoption of the remonstrance in Ireland and associated himself with Clarendon's opponents in England, particularly Buckingham and Arlington, both of whom he had known well on the Continent. Clarendon's fall in August 1667 and Ormond's dismissal from the lord lieutenancy, announced by Charles in February 1669, prepared the way for Talbot's appointment to the archbishopric of Dublin, which coincided with the appointment of Lord Robartes (qv) in place of Ormond. Talbot was consecrated in Antwerp on 9 May and took up his position in Dublin in the autumn, having spent the intervening months in London arguing for an end to the established policy of favouring those clergy who supported the remonstrance. The expectation of a close working relationship with the new lord lieutenant was disappointed when Robartes resigned within six months of his arrival (September 1669) and was replaced by Lord Berkeley (qv). Berkeley, who had known and distrusted Talbot in exile, treated him with the wariness required by his influential connections and dealt so far as possible with Archbishop Plunkett instead. When a general synod of bishops convened in Dublin on 17 June 1670, Talbot pursued his advantage over Walsh and the remonstrants by proposing the adoption of an alternative declaration of temporal allegiance, closely resembling the address that had been rejected by Ormond in 1666; this initiative was accepted by the meeting and formally welcomed by Berkeley (who had approved the declaration in advance at the prompting of Richard Talbot). During the synod Peter Talbot openly challenged the authority of Plunkett, partly by denying the historic primacy of the see of Armagh but also by claiming a royal mandate to oversee the conduct of the Irish clergy. The practical difficulty was resolved by having the decisions issued in the name of the bishop of Ossory, as secretary of the meeting, rather than that of the primate. The jurisdictional dispute was considered by the congregation of Propaganda Fide on 2 August 1672, when judgement was reserved and the protagonists were bound to silence. Later in the year, Bishop John O'Molony (qv) of Killaloe brokered an uneasy reconciliation between the rivals.

For some years, Talbot exercised his pastoral charge openly, holding provincial synods in 1670 and 1671, conducting a visitation in the latter year, and convening a number of meetings of clergy after Berkeley's replacement in August 1672 by the earl of Essex (qv). In February 1671 he presided at a meeting of nobles convened to arrange financial support for Richard Talbot's representation of catholic interests in London and took the opportunity to propose that the clergy should be required to contribute. His struggle with the remonstrants continued: he was charged with exercising foreign jurisdiction by a number of Franciscans in January 1671 and successfully defended before the council by Sir Nicholas Plunkett (qv). In the late summer of 1672 he excommunicated the Dominican prior of Kilcock, John Byrne, placed the parish under interdict, and prevailed on his nephew, a justice of the peace, to have Byrne committed to jail. On 26 March 1673 the English commons, as part of its response to Charles's declaration of indulgence, demanded that Talbot should be banished ‘for his notorious disloyalty and disobedience and contempt of the laws’ and in the following month, with the encouragement of the administration, Fr Byrne charged him with exercising a foreign jurisdiction and with raising money contrary to law. A committee appointed by Essex took evidence of Talbot's conduct in May 1673. The charges were found to have been proven and his claim to have authority from England ‘for punishing and correcting the popish clergy’ was judged untrue on the testimony of Oliver Plunkett, who had been so assured by Talbot's successor as queen's almoner, Lord Philip Howard. Talbot had applied for and received a pass to travel to France in April; he left Ireland in June, secured letters of recommendation to Louis XIV from both Charles and the duke of York, and arrived in France by September.

Supported by a royal pension of £200, he wrote a number of works of religious controversy, published his statement of the case for Dublin's right to the primacy, and addressed a pastoral letter to his diocese in May 1674. By March 1676 he had moved to England, where he lived in declining health as a guest of Sir James Pool in Cheshire for two years before receiving permission from Ormond (again lord lieutenant) to return to Ireland in May 1678 on condition that he did not interfere in temporal matters. He lived privately in his brother Richard's house at Luttrellstown till 11 October, when he was arrested on foot of an accusation that he was implicated in the ‘popish plot’, with particular responsibility for the murder of the duke of Ormond. The charge was without foundation but there was an irony, not lost on Ormond, in the fact that Peter had been suspected of complicity in a threat to take Ormond's life for which Richard had been imprisoned in 1664. Peter remained in prison in Dublin without trial till his death (25 October × 22 November 1680), some weeks after he had received sacramental absolution from his erstwhile rival and fellow prisoner, Oliver Plunkett.

Sources
Bodl., Carte MS 38; Peter Walsh, The history and vindication of the loyal formulary or Irish remonstrance (1674); T. Carte, The life of James, duke of Ormond (1735–6); id., A collection of original letters and papers (1739); L. F. Renehan, Collections on Irish church history, i: Irish archbishops (1861); Calendar of the Clarendon state papers preserved in the Bodleian Library, ii–v (1869–1970); P. F. Moran (ed.), Spicilegium Ossoriense (1874); HMC, Rep. 10, app. 5, Jesuit archives (1885); P. F Moran, Memoir of the Ven. Oliver Plunkett (1895); CSPD, 1672–3, 1678; HMC, Ormonde MSS, ii; new ser., v (1908); Eva Scott, The travels of the king (1907); P. W. Sergeant, Little Jennings and Fighting Dick Talbot (1913); William P. Burke, The Irish priests in the penal times (1914); Benignus Millett, The Irish Franciscans, 1651–1665 (1964); id., Survival and reorganization, 1650–95 (1968); C. Petrie, The great Tyrconnell (1972); John Hanly (ed.), The letters of Saint Oliver Plunkett (1979)

◆ Fr Edmund Hogan SJ “Catalogica Chronologica” :

DOB Carton, Kildare; Ent 1635 Portugal; RIP 1680 Newgate prison - LEFT 29/06/1659 “justis de causis”, but wished to return

Son of William 1st Baron of Carton and Alison née Netterville. Brother of John SJ. Brother of Richard, first Duke of Tyrconnell by James II and Viceroy of Ireland. Brother Sir Robert 2nd Baron of Carton. (HIB CATS and Dr Peter Talbot’s “Friar Disciplined”) Cousins of th Netterville’s SJ.

He rendered good service to Charles II while exiled, and a letter from the King to him is given in Thurloe’s State Papers Vol i p 662. He is also alluded to in another paper in the same volume, p 752.
On the death of Thomas Fleming Archbishop of Dublin, Pope Clement IX appointed Peter as Archbishop on 02/05/1669.

1638 Came to Irish Mission and was a good Preacher, Confessor and Professor of Humanities.

1658 On 30/041658 he arrived at the Professed House Antwerp from Ireland (BELG CAT)

1680 He died at Newgate prison Dublin for the faith. He wished to reenter the Society from which he had been dismissed “justis de causis”. “Father Peter Talbot in England, though he did not belong to the English Province, was dismissed by order of Father General 29/06/1659”. (CAT Tertius of ANG 1659-1660. (cf Hogan’s List)

Dr Talbot in his “Friar Disciplined” says to the famous Peter Walsh “Mr Walsh, Father John Talbot, of whom you said when he died (as if it were a rarity of kind of miracle) ‘There lies a honest Jesuit’ assured me, that, after his brother Sir Robert Talbot Had...”
Dr Talbot in his “Haeresis Blackloiana” p 250 says that he himself had studied in Rome with such gifted Jesuits (orbis miracula) as Tirrell, Maurus, Telin (an Irishman - Teeling?), and the younger Palavicino, and was appointed to teach Philosophy at Évora, which has given so many outstanding Theologians to England and Ireland, and amongst others, Father John Talbot, my brother, a distinguished defender of the Roman Faith”
In his treatise on “Religion and Government” p 557, Dr Talbot says he saw the Martyr, Father Mastrilli, in Lisbon on his way to India, and heard him tell his story of his cure by St Xaverius.

(For his literary works see de Backer “Biblioth. des Écrivains SJ”, and for a fuller account see Oliver, Stonyhurst MSS)

Dr Talbot’s Letter to Peter Walsh in his “Friar Disciplined”
“As to Friar Walsh, his no less ridiculous than malicious observations and comments upon my devotion and respect to the Most reverend Father Oliva and the whole Society - I must own to the whole world I should be as ill as a man and as a great liar as Walsh himself (and that is the worst that can be said of any man), if I did not esteem very much and speak well of the virtues and learning of the Society. Few can speak with ore knowledge and none with less impartiality. I have lived in their most famous Colleges, and taught in some. I never was in any College or community of theirs where there was not one or more of known eminent sanctity, many of extraordinary virtue, and none that I knew vicious. I always found their Superiors charitable and sincere, their Procurators devout, their Professors humble though learned, their young Masters of Humanity and Students of Philosophy and Divinity very chaste, and if any gave the least suspicion of being otherwise, he was presently dismissed, It is my greatest admiration how so great a body, so generally employed and trusted by the greatest princes, so conversant in the world (according to their holy Institute) can savour so little of it and live so innocently as they do, and even forsake the best part of it, Europe their many conveniences and relations (who are illustrious) and banish themselves to Asia, Africa and America, upon no other account of saving souls. In their schools they teach not those infamous doctrines which that foul mouthed FW asperseth their authors with and says I do practice, but are very reserved in delivering any larger opinion, even of the most famous writers, for fear men should abuse an misapply their authority. This is the substance of what I have said and must say if I will speak truth of an Order, wherein I have lived many years in great content, and truly so innocently (through God’s grace and their example) that the greatest sin I can charge myself with during my abode among them, is the resolution I took of leaving them, though (perhaps erroneously) I framed then a judgement that the circumstances di excuse it from being mortal”... (Hogan’s note)

◆ George Oliver Towards Illustrating the Biography of the Scotch, English and Irish Members SJ
TALBOT, PETER, son of Sir William Talbot, and Brother of the Richard Talbot, who was created Duke of Tyrconnell by King James the Second, and Viceroy of Ireland. Peter was born in the County of Dublin, in 1620. At the age of 15 he enrolled himself in Portugal, amongst the children of St. Ignatius. After his promotion to the Priesthood, he was employed to teach Moral Theology at Antwerp. He had reached London in the spring of 1651, and was preparing to pass over to Ireland on some secret service and commission of Jean IV King of Portugal, and I find him described in a letter of the 29th of April that year as sapientia, pietate et zelo tanto oneri parem. His letter from Cologne, written on the 17th of November, 1654, shews how fully he possessed the confidence of his legitimate Sovereign Charles the Second, then a resident in that City. That his Majesty was then disposed to favour his Catholic subjects, whom he had found to be most faithful to his person and most zealously attached to Monarchial Government, is certain nay, that he was favourably disposed towards their religion is not improbable; but I see no cause for crediting the assertion of the learned author of the Hibcrnia Dominicana, p.711, that the King was reconciled to the Catholic Church by F. Peter Talbot, at Cologne, in the year 1656. There is too much reason to believe, that the King’s was but a death bed conversion.

About the period of the Restoration of his Sovereign, whose interests he had long and most diligently served, and promoted F. Talbot obtained “justis de causis” a dispensation from his vows; but his affection for the Society of Jesus continued unabated. On the death of Dr. Thomas Fleming, Archbishop of Dublin, Pope Clement IX named Dr. Talbot, on the 2nd of May, 1669, to fill that vacant see. His zeal for the advancement of Religion, and for his Country’s welfare (for he was a true patriot), procured him many enemies in those days of intolerance and bigotry. With his pen he was indefatigable, as the list of his works, which he himself supplied for insertion in Southwell’s Bibliotheca Scriptorum Societatis Jesu (p.702) abundantly proves. In consequence of K. Charles IInd’s Proclamation for the banishment of all Bishops and Religious from Ireland, his Grace repaired to the continent; and I find by his original letter, dated the 29th of December, 1673, from Paris, that his Sovereign, as well as James Duke of York, had recommended him to the most Christian King, and even in letters written with their own hands, to provide him with a Benefice becoming his station, and that he had then actually delivered them. How long he remained abroad I cannot determine; but I read in a Journal, formerly kept at Watten, near St. Omer, the following memorandum : “AD 1676, Feb. 24. My Lord Primate of Ireland, Lord Talbot came here from St. Omer, with F. Retor and F. Ireland”. Soon after his return to Ireland, whilst labouring under great bodily infirmity, he was seized in his brother s house at Carr Town, County Kildare, removed in a chair, and committed a close prisoner, as an accomplice in Oates Plot !!! Harris, (p.197, Book I. Writers of Ireland) with all his prejudices, admits that “nothing appeared against him from his examinations, nor from those of others”. Still the wicked policy of the Sovereign allowed this faithful subject* and old friend to linger for two years in confinement within the walls of Newgate, Dublin, where he died in 1680. See the honorable testimony, p. 131, of the Hibernia Dominicana, to this most injured character. Dr. Patrick Russell was elected his successor in the Archbishopric on the 2nd of August, 1683.
Whilst a Father of the Society of Jesus, he published :

1. “A Treatise of the nature of Catholic Faith and Heresie, with Reflection upon the Nullitie of the English Protestant Church and Clergy” Svo Rouen, 1657. pp. 89.
2. “The Polititians Catechisme for his Instruction in Divine Faith and Morale Honesty”. Svo. Antwerp, 1658, pp.193. Dodd, p. 284, vol. iii. Church History might have improved his article, had he paid more attention to the spirit of F. Southwell’s Narrative, which lay open before him.

• This Luminary of the O.S.D. Dr. Thomas Burke was born in Dublin, in 1709, and succeeded Dr. James Dunne in the See of Ossory, in 1759. He was consecrated at Drogheda by the Primate Anthony Blake, on Low Sunday, the 22nd. of April, that year, and died at his house in Maudlin Street, Kilkenny, on Wednesday, the 25th of September, 1776. This compilation 4to. pp. 797, was actually printed at Kilkenny, from the press of James Stokes (although the title page sets out that it issued from the Metternick Print-office at Cologne) in 1762. Ten years later, a Supplement was printed at Kilkenny, I think by Edmund Finn, which increases the whole work to 949 pages. The Historical Part is valuable Indeed; but the political tendency of the work excited great uneasiness and alarm in the Bishops and Clergy of Ireland. Seven of the Prelates met at Thurles, and signed a declaration on the 28th day of July, 1775, expressive of their disapproval of the Publication as tending to weaken and subvert the fidelity and allegiance due to their gracious Sovereign George III. and to disturb the Public peace and tranquillity, and to give a handle to their opponents to impute principles that they utterly reject, and which are unfounded in the Doctrines of the Catholic Church. See the Anthologia Hibernica for February, 1793, p. 96

• The honour of the reconciliation is due to the Benedictines.That holy Missionary, Benedict Gibbon, (born at Westcliffe, in Kent; professed at Lambspring, on the 21st of March, 1672; deceased 1st of January, 1723), whilst dining with F. Mansuet, O.S.F., Confessor to James, Duke of York, desired him to go to his Royal Highness and advise him to propose to the King, then near his end, whether he did not desire to die in the Communion of the Catholic Church. The Duke did so; and the consequence was, that F. John Huddleston concluded this reconciliation. The seeds of this Conversion were probably sown at Mosely. During the King’s concealment there, he had much interesting conversation with F. Hudleston the Chaplain.

• To the Editor of the Catholic Miscellany for 1826, the public is indebted for reprinting the admirable Pastoral Letter of this loyal Archbishop of Dublin, dated Paris, May 2nd, 1674. See pp 66. 72.

Francis Finegan SJ Biographical Dictionary 1598-1773

He was the younger brother of Father John Talbot SJ, and was born June 29, 1618, and entered the Society at Lisbon, c May 1635. Before his admission to the Novitiate he had already begun his Philosophical studies.

After his Noviceship he resumed his Philosophy course at Coimbra, and according to the Portuguese triennian Catalogus of 1642, was reading Theology, but that source does not say where. In 1645 he was teaching Latin in Lisbon and was not yet a Priest, and it is possible that he interrupted his Theological studies to make his Regency. In any event, he was not ordained Priest until April 1648. The following year he was sent to the Roman Province to make his tertianship at Florence. Thereafter he identified himself with the cause of Charles II.

He was in Ireland in 1652, and for some time the following year. Afterward, his name appears in only one Catalogue, that of Flanders in 1655, when he was a Military Chaplain. The contemporary correspondence shows that his journeyings and negotiations for the Royalist cause earned him the disapproval of the General. He was finally dismissed from the Society on June 29, 1659.

His departure from the Society, however, was friendly, and ever after, his relations with his former colleagues in Ireland were most amicable. he eventually became Archbishop of Dublin, 1669, and died a prisoner for the Faith on November 15, 1680, at Dublin Castle.

The cause for his beatification is before the Holy See.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Talbot_(bishop)

Portrait of Peter Talbot, c. 1660, located in Malahide Castle
Church Catholic Church
Archdiocese Archdiocese of Dublin
Appointed 1669
Orders
Ordination c. 1647
Consecration 9 May 1669
Personal details
Born 1618/1620
Malahide, County Dublin, Ireland
Died 15 November 1680
Dublin Castle, Dublin, Ireland
Peter Talbot (1618/1620 – 15 November 1680) was the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin from 1669 to his death in prison. He was a victim of the Popish Plot.

Early life
Talbot was born at Malahide in 1618[1][2] or 1620[3][4][5] to Sir William Talbot and his wife Alison (née Netterville).[2][3][5] In May 1635, he entered the Society of Jesus in Portugal.[3][2][5] He was ordained a priest at Rome on either 6 April 1647[2] or 6 June 1648.[1]

According to archbishop Oliver Plunkett, Talbot proved ‘so troublesome’ that he was made to carry out the tertian stage of his probation in Florence.[2]

Talbot held the chair of theology at the College of Antwerp.[3][4][5] In the meantime during the Commonwealth period, Charles II and the royal family were compelled to seek refuge in Europe. Throughout the period of the king's exile, Talbot's brothers were attached to the royal court. The eldest brother, Sir Robert Talbot, 2nd Baronet, had held a high commission under James Butler, 1st Duke of Ormond in the army in Ireland and was reckoned among the king's most confidential advisers. A younger brother, Richard Talbot, later 1st Earl of Tyrconnell, was also devoted to the cause of the exiled monarch and stood high in royal favour.[4]

Appointments
Peter Talbot himself was constantly in attendance on Charles II and his court. On account of his knowledge of the continental languages, he was repeatedly dispatched to private embassies in Lisbon, Madrid, and Paris. On the return of the king to London, Talbot received an appointment as Queen's Almoner, but the Clarendon and Ormond faction, which was then predominant, feared his influence with the king. He was accused of conspiring with four Jesuits to assassinate the Duke of Ormond, and he was forced to seek safety by resigning his position at Court and retiring to continent Europe. The king allowed him a pension of three hundred pounds a year. Before his return to England, Talbot had, with the approval of the General of the Jesuits, severed his connection with the Society.[4]

He was appointed Archbishop of Dublin in 1669. Sources differ on the exact date - 11 January,[4] 8 March[1] or 2 May.[3] Talbot was consecrated in Antwerp on 9 May 1669,[2][5] assisted by the Bishops of Ghent and Ferns.[4][5]

Catholic persecution
During this period, the English treatment of Catholics in Ireland was more lenient than usual, owing to the known sympathies of the King (who entered the Catholic Church on his deathbed). In August 1670, Talbot held his first Diocesan Synod in Dublin. It was opened with High Mass, which for forty years many of the faithful had not witnessed. In the same year, an assembly of the archbishops and bishops and representatives of the clergy was held in Dublin. At this assembly, the question of precedence and of the primatial authority gave rise to considerable discussion and led to an embittered controversy between the Archbishop of Dublin and Oliver Plunkett, Archbishop of Armagh.[4] The subject had been one of great controversy in the Middle Ages, but had been in abeyance for some time.[citation needed] Both prelates considered that they were asserting the rights of their respective sees, and each published a treatise on the subject. Another meeting of the Catholic gentry was convened by Talbot, at which it was resolved to send to the Court at London a representative who would seek redress for some of the grievances to which the Catholics of Ireland were subjected. This alarmed the Protestants in Ireland, who feared that the balance of power might shift to the Catholic majority. They protested to King Charles, and in 1673 some of the repressive measures against Irish Catholics were reinstated, and Talbot was compelled to seek safety in exile.[4]

Exile, arrest and death
During his banishment, he resided generally in Paris. In 1675, Talbot, in poor health, obtained permission to return to England, and for two years he resided with a family friend at Poole Hall in Cheshire. Towards the end of 1677, he petitioned the Crown for leave "to come to Ireland to die in his own country", and through the influence of James, Duke of York his request was granted.[4]

Shortly after that, the Popish Plot was hatched by Titus Oates, and information was forwarded to James Butler, 1st Duke of Ormond as Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, to the effect that a rebellion was being planned in Ireland, that Peter Talbot was one of the accomplices, and that assassins had been hired to murder the Duke himself. Ormond was in private deeply sceptical of the Popish Plot's existence, remarking that Talbot was too ill to carry it out.[4] Of the alleged assassins, Ormond stated that they were such "silly drunken vagabonds" that "no schoolboy would trust them to rob an orchard"; but he thought it politically unwise to show his doubts publicly. Though he was sympathetic to Oliver Plunkett, who was also arrested in connection with the alleged Plot and was later to die on the scaffold, he had always been hostile to Talbot.[6]

On 8 October 1678, Ormond signed a warrant for Talbot's arrest.[6][4] He was arrested at Cartown near Maynooth at the house of his brother, Colonel Richard Talbot, and was then moved to Dublin Castle.[4]

For two years Talbot remained in prison without trial, where he fell ill.[4][2] Despite their long friendship, Charles II, fearful of the political repercussions, made no effort to save him.[6] Talbot was held in an adjoining cell to Oliver Plunkett. The two archbishops reconciled as fellow prisoners, setting aside their disagreements as expressed in their treatises.[4]

From his prison cell, Talbot had written on 12 April 1679, petitioning that a priest be allowed to visit him, as he was bedridden for months and was now in imminent danger of death. The petition was refused, but Plunkett, on hearing of Talbot's dying condition, forced his way through the warders and administered to the dying prelate the last consolations of the sacraments.[4][2] Talbot died in prison on 15 November 1680.[6][1][2][4]

Legacy
Talbot is said to have been interred in the churchyard of St. Audoen's Church, close by the tomb of Rowland FitzEustace, 1st Baron Portlester.[4]

(1) Cheney, David M. "Archbishop Peter Talbot". www.catholic-hierarchy.org. Retrieved 1 January 2024.

(2) Clarke, Aidan. "Talbot, Peter". Dictionary of Irish Biography.

(3) Oliver, George (1838). Collections towards illustrating the biography of the Scotch, English, and Irish members, of the Society of Jesus. C. Dolman. ISBN 978-1333240035.

(4) Moran, Francis (1912). "Peter Talbot" . Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 14.

(5) Bagwell, Richard (1898). "Talbot, Peter" . Dictionary of National Biography. Vol. 55. pp. 327–329.

(6) Kenyon, J.P. (2000). The Popish Plot. Phoenix Press Reissue. p. 225.

◆ Henry Foley - Records of the English province of The Society of Jesus Vol VII
TALBOT, PETER, Father (Irish), born at Carton, in Kildare, 1620; entered the Society in Portugal, 1635. (Hogan's list.) He was son of Sir William Talbot, and brother of Richard Talbot, who was created first Duke of Tyrconnell by King James II.
This Father rendered good service to Charles II, when an exile, and a letter from the King to him is given in Thurloe's State Papers, vol. i. p. 662. He is also alluded to in another paper in p. 752 of the same vol. Upon the death of Dr. Thomas Fleming, Archbishop of Dublin, Pope Clement IX, appointed Father Peter Talbot to fill the vacant Archbishopric on May 2, 1669. For his literary works see Father Southwell's Bibl. Scriptorum .7., and Father de Backer's Biblioth. des Ecrivains 5.7., and for a fuller account see Oliver, from Stonyhurst MSS. On April 30, 1658, he arrived from Ireland at the Professed House, Antwerp. (Belgian Catalogue.) He died in Newgate Prison, Dublin, for the Catholic faith, in 1680. He wished to re-enter the Society, from which he had been dismissed, justis de causis. (Hogan's list) " Father Peter Talbot in England, although he did not belong to the English Province, was dismissed by order of the Rev. Father General, June 29, 1659."-Catalogus Tertius of the English Province for 1659-60. See Hogan's Irish list for further particulars. (1)

Talbot, John, born in 1611, in county Kildare, probably at Carton, the seat of his father, Sir W. Talbot, Bart. ; entered the Socięty in 1632; came to the Irish Mission in 1638; was a good preacher, Confessarius and Professor of Humanities; was brother of Sir Robert Talbot, Bart., Richard, Duke of Tyrconnell, Viceroy of Ireland, and Peter, Archbishop of Dublin. (Irish Catalogues S.J. Dr. Talbot's Friar Disciplined,) He died between 1666 and 1674 ; since Dr. Talbot, in his Friar Disciplined, published in 1674, says to the famous Peter Walsh : “Jr. Walsh, Father John Talbot, of whom you said when he died (as if it yere & rarity or kind of miracle). There lies a honest Jesuit,' assuredi me, that, after his brother, Sir Robert Talbot, hari," etc. Again, Dr. Talbot, in his Horosis Blackloiana, says he himself had studied in Konie with such gifted Jesuits (orbis miracula) as Tirrell, Maurus, Telin (an Irishman), and the younger Palavicino, and was appointed to reach philosophy at the University of Evora, which has given so many orthodox theologians to England and Ireland, and amongst others Father John Talbot, my brother, a distinguished defender of the Roman Faith." (Hurusis Blacklinna, P. 250.) In his Treatise on Religion and Government, p. 557, Dr. Talbot says he saw the martyr, Father Mastrilli, in Lisbon, on his way to India, and heard him tell the story of his cure by St. Xavcrius. All these Talbots were cousins of the Fathers Netterville, S.).

The Gilbert Talbot of the Society, who cannot be identified in the English Catalogues, was perhaps a brother of Peter's, who had been a Colonel in the Irish army in the “Forty-one Wars" (1641), and, says Clarendon, was looked upon as a man of courage, having fought a dud or trvo with stond men. I think there were three John Talbots S.J., as follows: (1) John Tallxot, born 1609; entered 1626, in Portugal. (2) John Talbot, born in Kildare, 1611; entered 1632; came to mission in 1638. (3) John Talbot, born 1619; entererl circ. 1637; one of them was a brother of Peter's, the two others were probably an uncle and a cousin of his.

Dr. Talbot's Laler to Peter Walsh in the " Friar Disciplined,"
As to Friar Walsh, his no less ridiculous than malicious observations and comments upon my devotion and respect to the most Reverend Father Oliva and the whole Society--I must own to the whole world I should be as ill a man and as great a liar as Walsh himself (and that is the worst that can le said of any man), if I did not cstcem very much and speak Hell of the virtue and learning of the society. Fow can speak with more knowledge, and none with less impartiality. I have been in most of their Provinces of Europe. I have lived in their most famous Colleges, and taught in some. I never was in any College or community of theirs where there was not ne or more of known eminent sanctity, inany of extraordinary virtue, wul none that I know vicious. I always found their Superiors charitable and sincere, their l'rocurators (levout, their l'rofessors humble though learnul, their young Masters of Ifumarity and Students of Philosophy and Divinity very chasic, and if any pare the least suspicion of being utlicrwise, he was presently dismissed. It is ny greatest aclınira tion how so great a lody, so generally employed and trusted by the greatest princes, so einversant in the world (according to their holy Institute). can savour so little of it and live so innocently as they do: and cten forsake the best part of it, kurope, their many conveniences and relations (who are illustrious), and lanish themselves to Asia, Africa, and America, tupun no other account but that of Sving souls. In their schools they tanch not those infanious (loctrines which that foul-momhed F. . asperseth their authors with, and says I do practise, frut are very reserved in delivering any larger opinion even of the most famous writers, for fear men should alsuse and misapply their authority. This is the substance of what I always said and must say if I will speak truth of an Order wherein I have lived many years in great content, and truly so innocently (through God's grace and their example!, that the greatest sin I can charge myself with during my alade among them, is the resolution I took of leaving them, thouyl (perhaps erroneously) I framed then a judgment that the circumstances did excuse it from being inorlal," etc. (This note is furnished by I'r. Hogan.)